in a few months, dingwei could be seriously loaded. if he does strike it lucky, news of his find would spread fast, and this peaceful valley could soon be swarming with greedy prospectors. >> i am jennifer granholm. this is the war room where politics is a contact sport. remember that before you start picking a fight with michigan union workers. [ music ] >> this is a fight for the survival of labor unions and the american middle class they

support. just minutes ago, the michigan house of representatives passed the so-called "right to work bill." it passed 58 to 52. six republicans voted know, but the bill passed. and believe me if they can do this in michigan they can do it anywhere in the country. it gives new meaning to the term "lame-duck session." the bill basically eviscerates bargaining. it's a move to cut off the resources that give labor unions their strength. in addition to people funding, we have seen this work before. there is no doubt what's going on here. it is a war on unions. it is a war on the democratic party. today, a lansing state journal photographer captured this video as waves of union sportupporters and police flooded the state capitol trying to stop the bill. the capitol was locked down. police say they arrested eight

people inside, and even used a chemical spray to regain control control. outside, union supporters marched in solidarity the bill exempted unions representing police officers and firefighter. sound like shades of scott walker's wisconsin, anyone? an effort to divide the unions anyone? republicans in michigan, all of michigan control the house, the senate, the governor's office, the attorney general, the secretary of state, total control on the state level. less than two hours ago democratic state representative vicki barnett summed the outrage up on the house floor. >> what bothers me most today is that this bill was not discussed ahead of time. it was discharged on the floor then substituted on the floor. members of the unions came up to protest, and they were locked out of this building. this is their house, mr.

mr. speaker. it should be allowed in the door. >> locked out. stuff pushed through on procedurally maneuvers. earlier, governor snyder made his case. >> this is an issue that i said was not on my agenda for some time. and why did i say that? only about 17 1/2% of our workers in this state belong to a union. most people do not. so it wasn't a relevant issue for most michiganers. we are losing an advantage. indiana has become a right to work state. i have looked at their pipeline. they have increased the number of businesses to come to indiana and grow in indiana due to this legislation. >> believe me, as i say, this is not just at michigan story. this is an american story because right now right to work laws are on the books in 23 states. michigan would become the 24th. almost half of the entire united states of america.

what started in the south and on the plains is spreading to the industrial north. i just want us to remember here that unions brought to america the minimum age, the 8-hour workday, workplace safety rules, really, the middle class is what the unions of america gave to us. getting rid of unions will do one thing. it will exacerbate the concentration of power and money at the top and continue the hollowing out of america's middle class. that is why what is happening in michigan takes my breath away. joining me now on the phone from lansing, michigan is zac paul. zac is over progress michigan that uses new media to build grassroots support for progressive ideas. zac has been on the front lines for the past two days in protesting the legislation. zac, welcome inside the war room. >> thanks for having me governor. >> give us the lay of the land zac.

what's happening right now? >> i just ran back across the street from the capitol. there were hundreds of protesters, as you said locked outside of the building today. the governor announced this legislation just this morning at 11:00 a.m. and just minutes before 5:00 o'clock today before the show started, the bill had passed. unfortunately, the building had been locked with literally hundreds of people outside the building unable to get into the people's house to make their voices heard. meanwhile, we got numerous pictures from inside the house showing that the building was nowhere near capacity. >> before -- tell us explain why they were -- what was the rationale for locking the capitol down is it. >> the official reason was because the building was at capacity. but as we saw throughout the day from people who were still inside the building when the doors were locked there were long empty haulways. there was plenty of room in the capitol for people to come in and make their voices heard. unfortunately, they don't get in because the doors were locked. >> it's my understanding a court just issued an injunction to require that the capitol

building be open. what happened there? >> yes. i was standing outside the capitol just under an our ago when the announcement was made when a court injunction had been issued, both to the governor and to the michigan state police requiring that the building be opened. form, the state police for whatever reason did not comply and protesters were still forced to stay outside the building. now, about half an hour ago, house democrats came out of the house insisting that they wouldn't be present on the floor for any votes until citizens were allowed back inside the building. finally, the state police complied. the doors were opened. democrats went into the house and the vote took place about 15 minutes ago. >> okay. this is a vote just in the house. when is the action going to be complete? when will the senate complete that? >> well, here in michigan there is a constitutional provision that requires bills to lay over for a period of five days. we are expecting a vote in the senate by next -- next week on tuesday, and so, you know there will probably be, you know some more activity throughout the weekend.

the legislature has announced session days throughout the weekend, which is pretty uncommon here in michigan so this is not going to stop at least for the in connection few days. then from there, it will go on to the governor's desk where today he indicated he would sign this so-called right to work bill. >> when was aich was a surprise? >> the governor has been consists ent saying it was not on his agenda didn't think it was a prior to. he testified before a congressional panel this year saying he didn't think it was appropriate for michigan in 2012. two days ago, he was asked by a reporter he finally said, it's on the agenda. this morning he went a step further with a press conference announcing he would sign such a bill. that seems to be where this is headed right now. >> all right, zach thanks for joining us on the phone call. i want to turn fast to another perspective over the labor fight in michigan and the nation. i want to broaden it out. we are going to turn to one of the country's top labor leaders, somebody with the most on the line one might argue in this battle uaw president bob king

joining us from lansing. welcome back inside "the war room". >> thank you jennifer. good to be with you. >> you were one of the ones who was locked out of the capitol today. has that ever happened to you before? >> no. it hasn't. pretty unbelievable. i don't know it's happened in michigan before. >> if everybody was locked out today and the court ruled the building has to be opened will people be coming back on tuesday for the completion of this act? >> oh, yeah. there will be a big turnout of working people working families on tuesday. >> tell people what this whether mean for the uaw if this passes >> it's more what it means for the citizens of michigan right to work states have lower wages, great he were income disparity t funding for public education. all of these negatives for the citizens of michigan that's what right to work brings to a state. it does not bring economic prosperity. i have heard the governor and some others say, well indians is getting a lot of jobs. that was only february they

passed it. there is no way to know whether it's going to give new jobs or not. we know oklahoma -- there has beg a number of studies done in oklahoma it did not produce additional jobs. as a matter of fact, if you draw a comparison to two years before, the 10 years after, it's actually less investment in oklahoma. it's bad for michigan it's bad for anywhere. >> all right. >> right to work is about lessening worker's voice in government and the workplace. >> if it's not about economic development, is it more of a political action against the progressive movement? >> i absolutely thingk it is. we have seen all kinds of voter suppression, suppression of democratic rights. this is another example. the wealthy -- this is really driven by wealthy forces in michigan that you know well, the debos. family others dick debos, and they want the wealthy to get more and more and the workers to get less and less to try to

push us down to third-world level on wages and benefits. it's outrage ooze. it shows the tremendous -- actually we did him 10 days of really fruitful discussions about how to change the dynamics in michigan, how to change the climate, with the governor with the head of the senate the head of the house. then the right-wing pressure came down and the governor n my view caved to that pressure. >> but i heard that one of the entities also funding this in addition to the bill yon air, dick devos is bill i don't believeair koch brothers with americans for prosperity are they one of the players? >> they are. they have a big tent out there. the other day they had 23 people come in a bus, about 30 or 40 total people. this is not -- the general public does not want michigan to go right to work. one of the things we said we attempted many ways to avoid it, to find a path to work. >> that's what the american

public has said clearly in this last election they are tired of partisanship polarization. so we made an outreach. to the governor's credit we had meetings. they know when it came time to made make the leadership decision to say, okay, we can do more working together than dividing. i think he wanted to do it but, you know leadershipwise we have seen this happy happen over and over again. when the right-wing puts a bill up endings dues deductions limiting public bargaining rights lessening healthcare, lessening pensions the governor signs it. it's not on his agenda. >> he has to fall in line. right? >> yeah. >> let me play devil's advocate. those who are watching who may not be in a union, they might say in wisconsin and in michigan and in the last election labor attempted ballot proposals that were unsuccessful is there a different strategy this time? how can the message change to be relevant as you have tried to do here in this conversation to those who are not in the labor movement?

what will be your next step in michigan. >> lots of people turning out so we have had a lot of opportunity to talk about the good and the bad of right to work. we have had a great opportunity to educate people. the right-wing says this is to stop forced unionization. you know and i know there is no forced unionization. federal labor law says any worker in any workplace, doesn't matter if there is a june yun can say i don't want to be a member of the union. in our uaw constitution, we have a provision that members can say, i don't want to be a member of a union. that's one option. another option members can dom under our constitution is say, i don't mind being a member but i don't want any of my dues dollars to go for political purposes, and we allow members to say that and they can get a rebate on their dues if they want to say that. >> where does the management of the automatic 0 company stand on this? >> you know, they all -- and i appreciate it. they all voice privately and

very strongly to the governor that thought this was devisive they thought this was bad for michigan. you know i just think that when push came to shove, you know, really i hope it comes out but we heard many, many stories about dick devos and others threatening people and saying if you don't support right-to-work, i will fund a candidate against you. so, you know it's unfortunate. >> that's not the kind of olympics i want people of michigan want. i think this will backfire. i think this will help us formal strong progressive coalition to take back state government in 2014. >> i hope you are right. we saw, you know, there is always a question of whether things are being overplayed by either side. this will be the 24th state if they actually do this. this is a national issue. where does it go next? >> well unfortunately, this is probably going to encourage other states states to do it.

as bad as this is there is always a silver lining. to me i have never seen the labor movement come together so strongly in michigan such great solidarity, from all of the un ions. a lot of our members will get more engaged now i think. so itas bad as this is for the general public in michigan it could help build a stronger movement in michigan because we see that there are attacks on anybody that is a constituent group in the democratic party, latinos, women, lgbt community, immigrants anybody who might work to voice their democratic rights, they try to take away our rights. >> all right. right. well, bob, i hope you are right. i hope everybody watching this is a progressive show. sports what's happening on the union side sports the workers and the labor movement in michigan, bob king president of the uaw, thanks for coming inside the war room. coming up tea party ringleader

jim demint is leaving the senate. if you are a woman, a minority a teacher, a union member or a homosexual, not to worry, he is still going to kick you around. it's just going to be with a different set of boots. plus, we are going to go to doha qatar, talks on climate change to see who has more pull elected leaders around the world and, yes, our favorite: the cope koch brothers. later fielding blue and couldn't be happier. a bit of good news. the face of america is changing and the country's electoral map is changing along with it. it's a thursday night in the rhyme "the war

[ music ] >> big news out of washington today as jim demint the

informal leader of the senate tea party caucus announced his resignation. he is going to step down and into the director's chair at the conservative think tank the heritage foundation. that position not only allows him to shape the conservative agenda from the outside. it also comes with a pretty significant raise. demint now makes $174,000 a year. he's got an estimated net worth of $65,000. so he's actually the fourth poorest senator right now according to open secrets. but at heritage he's going to pull down a cool estimated million dollar salary. he told rush limbaugh that it's about principles not dollars, saying quote, i believe that i can do more good for the conservative movement outside of the senate. of course he has done a lot for the movement inside the senate because through his senate

conservative fund he has cultivated a whole host of tea partyers including tea party senators like ron johnson, mike lee, marco rubio, pat toomey rand paul geoff flake, geoff fisher. perhaps his worst was backing todd aiken after todd aikenenths "legitimate rape," he donated to aiken's come pain but his attempts to remake the republican party in his conservative image has errands him actually the scorn of more moderate republicans. washington post columnist jennifer rubin wrote today, quote, "demint has been a destructive force, thread anything to primary colleagues, resisting all deals and offering very little in the way of attainable legislation." she's right. the legislation that he backed was pretty far out there. for example, he pushed a bill

that would make it illegal to discuss abortion on the internet, to even discuss it. he wanted to make it illegal for gay people or unmarried women having premarital sex to be teachers at all. he led the opposition to obamacare. he said if he could stop the law from passing, it would quote break the president. he put a hold on the national women's history museum. governor nikki haley will appoint his successor, governor of south carolina and folks who are reading the tea leaves or the tea party leaves predict it's probably going to be representative tim scott. tim scott is perhaps best known for joining allen west in refusing to participate in the congressional black caucus and, also for suggesting impeachment of the president as he unilaterally increased the -- if heun lat unilaterally increased the debt limit. he has the backing for the club for growth.

he would be the senate's only african-american member and only the g.o.p.'s second african-american senator since reconstruction. some have suggested that nikki haley, herself would run but she told a local radio station today that that wasn't even an option. here is an option that she does have. today, steven colbert tweeted, "waiting on your call nikki haley, i would like to get this wrapped up before dinner. thanks. he is from south carolina. he might be the most serious candidate out there. who knows? joining me is adam beam the political reporter for the state newspaper in south carolina via skype from columbia south carolina. adam, thanks so much for being here? >> thanks for having me. >> okay. so what is the word on the ground? will tim scott get it? >> well it appears he is the frontrunner for sure for just many of the reasons you mentioned. you know, he would be the first

african-american republican senator since reconstruction. it would be a great pick for the republican side because they keep talking about trying to deversefy their party and that -- -- that certainly will be a great pick for that reason for republicans if they want to do it that way. plus several sources have told us and told other media outlets that senator demint personally told haley to pick tim scott. >> so assuming that it's not tim scott, who else is in the running? who else is being talked about? >> well it depends upon what the governor wants to do. there has been lots of talk about a sort of caretaker person, someone who would just serve for two years and then, you know, not run for re-election. a name that's come up a lot for that is former attorney general henry mcmaster. he is a former rival of governor haley. they faced off for governor two years ago now and haley defeated him. you know, a lot of people have mentioned him as a possible

caretaker, someone who would serve two years and bow out gracefully. i don't see that. i think that henry mcmaster has political ambition. i think he wants to run for that seat. >> ain't no way that's happening. there is no way she would appoint somebody -- i just can't imagine that. if it is somebody, though from the very far right, the most conservative part of the spectrum do you think that could set up in south carolina actually a moderate democrat in a couple of years? >> well it could. you know, i think democrats have an opportunity here there is a poll that was released just yesterday. >> yeah. >> that showed that 48% of south carolina angels approve of the barack obama which is higher than the governor's rating. but that same poll shows among registered voters that number is flip-flopped 49% disproved for the president. there is an opportunities for democrats. they have to get the voters registered. the people who would vote for

candidates like that are here they live here. they are just not registered stovote and they haven't voted. >> all right. well are i think it's an interesting, i would say from my side of the spectrum, it's age interesting opportunity. it might mean that there are some cracks in the conservative armor of south carolina a little bit. adam beam, i appreciate you coming inside the war room. adam is political reporter for the state newspapers in south carolina. up next from sim poseymposiums -- symposia on the evils of clemency to the surprising amount of research they have accrued on the sexual lives of teenagers, the heritage foundation is a right-wing kool-aid-drinkers paradise. we will look at jim demint's new home a closer look next on the war room. you have to see this.

tt >> as we have reported, senator

jim deminute of s south carolina will become the head of the heritage foundation. it's really influential, a radically conservative washington think tank. you may ask just how out of touch with mainstream america is the heritage taj foundation? heritage, for example, led the charge in stoking fears about voter id fraud before the election despite scientific data that it's a real and serious problem, heritage continues to cast doubt on climate change. when it comes to section education, hair strategy strongly pushes abstinence online. how can such a group with views like that be so utterly influential? joining me from new york to discuss that is katrina vanden huvall, the editor much "the nation." welcome back inside the "room"?

>> the election, you know, the election, seems to me it was a rejection of denialism, extremism, of intolerance. the heritage foundation represents all of those, and i think heritage was influential, really, in the reagan years, maybe a little bit in the bush years. but it's lost some of its luster. partly because the republican brand is staina stained brand with a shrinking base. >> let's hope it's lost some of its luster. do you think, though that someone like jim demint again, newly fired up and perhaps now on a mission could restore the luster of something like the heritage foundation? >> you know i don't see a new -- him newly fired up. i see him newly expelled. he took himself out of the running but, you know, look at what's happened. all of what he stood for has been rejected.

obamacare is the law of the land. he fought against that very hard. he fought against reproductive rights. he fought against gay rights. he fought against immigrant rights and coming out of this election, you had marriage quality and a rebuke to todd aiken, the senator who spoke about legitimate rape a man senator demint stood with and senator demint as your listeners know was called "senator tea party." the tea party brand is under stress. it's a moment when i think mr. demint is out in the wilderness. it's true that the right-wing has gone into the wilderness after defeat wing has gone into the wilderness after defeat. but the ideas are so unpopular. surveys after sur vades say voters want fair taxes on the rich not these problems like social security medicare and medicaid cut. what's he going to be? it may be rush limbaugh's favorite foundation, but that's not going to do a lot at this moment with this discredited

brand. >> well i am very fascinated by the underpinnings of the heritage foundation. we understanding demind is going to make a million dollarshalf a million dollars a year at heritage foundation but who gives heritage that money? what will they expect from demint in return? >> it's the same phalanx of people, these ideological billionaires who were sore losers in this election. they didn't get what they wanted. you have the koch brothers the olin foundation the bradley foundation. this is this network, this right-wing infrastructure that our money and politics 3 fuong writes about "the machine," but on the other side there are movements and progressive think tanks and, you know, a media emerging that is more popular in terms of the ideas in a country, let's be honest. the republican party lost this

last election. it will come back in different ways. but its values right now are not ones this country is buying. it's out of step with the changing america. and this heritage foundation is going to see in jim deminute a man who has been the go-to guy for the religious right. so the myth that it's really about fiscal policy is going to be blown open as it should be. the fact that it's really a right-wing marketing juggernaut and not a place for seeding new and innovative ideas that will make this currentountry better and more secure will be blown open. >> you are coming to me on a day when we have just been discussing how the same backers of the heritage foundation the coach koch brothers are backing americans for prosperity and in michigan they have won at least in the house of representatives the right to work bills and they will win them in the senate too, because they control it over there. so i am a bit discouraged. so i am glad to hear you are

feeling like not all is lost. but i do -- >> the reality, governor granholm, the reality is the heritage foundation is based in washington, d.c. inside the beltway. so much of the action right now as you well put it is in the states. the right wing the american legislative exchange counsel, alec they are powerful. they have a lot of money and a lot of lobby groups. they have bought upstate legislate temperatures. listen to what the good reporter said to you just now no wonder alec and the right wing has funded al myth i canic problem? voter fraud. they don't want democrats to register. >> that's not a left-right issue. >> that's a democracy issue. they have concocted the mythic voter fraud and put money behind it because they don't want to see people who will disproportionately vote democratic, people of color, young people, women, vote for

their opponent. >> i agree with all of that but you have to admit that there are so many of these conservative think tanks, both in washington and across the country and amount fewer progressive ones. >> i disagree with that. >> wow. >> i just came from a meeting of the roosevelt institute, campaign for america's future. around this country and in washington arethere are many progressive groups, think tanks action tanks. these right-wing think tanks are there because it's an extension of the billionaires and the millionaires' self interests. they want lower taxes. they don't want their taxes -- they -- and i would submit to you that you don't see in washington, d.c. lobbies for the middle class for the job less. >> right. >> people of color. what you have in washington are these establishment, well-funded

corporate lobbies. they want to fund corporations as people. they want those tax breaks. they are not working for the common good. around this country, you have social movements in motion. you have a lot of good progressive ideas. it is the case that right now we shouldn't be talking about cuts. we should be talking about how to create jobs. >> yeah. >> we should be talking about how to invest in our country and not be involved in kind of an austerity-light. >> that's going to take a lot more work, but i -- i respectfully submit that there are amount of good -- a lot of good progressive -- there is a lot of good progressive work and movement work. >> i love this. well, cat written t /* katrina, you are bringing some much-needed, positive view because i just feel like -- >> we've got it covered. >> you guys are doing a great job absolutely. >> you have to amplify those voices. >> >>. >> that's for sure. we have lee fuong on all the time. that's katrina vanden heuvel

bringing us a positive view. up next out to the doha qatar where it may not be so positive. leaders are meeting to talk about climate change though any discussion that doesn't include a way to get the medaling koch brothers is not going to change much of anything. that story is next let's rock and roll. there is so much going on that every day presents another exciting issue. from financial regulation, iran getting a nuclear bomb, civil war in syria, fraud on wall street, destruction of medicare there are real issues here. having been a governor, i know that trade-offs are tough. things everyday exploding around the world that leave no shortage for exciting conversations. i want our viewer to understand why things have happened. at the end of the show, you know what has happened, why its happened and more importantly, what's going to happen tomorrow.

>> today, new york city mayor

bloomberg announced a plan top protect the city from future natural disasters but he said there were no magic bullets, you don't have to be a believer in climate change to understand the ding dangers from extreme weather are already here after sandy, after katrina, after record droughts in the midwest, why aren't we seeing more meaningful action from congress on climate change? well, i got four words for you: charles & david koch conservative brothers with combined net worth of $80,000,000,000, $80,000,000,000 have spent a fortunate to kill climate legislation. they have also funded climate change denial science, and they've waged an all-out attack on clean air laws of the. the top 25 senators who have received the most campaign cash

from from, seven sitting here today on the environmental public works committees and big surprise. they are all republicans and they have all voted in favor of oil interests. john barasso, jim inhoff and lamar alexander have voted for fossil fuels 94% of the time. the koch brothers have given $60 million to groups that fund climate denial research including senator jim demint's new home the heritage foundation. right now, halfway across the world in doha qatar, world leaders are meeting for climate talks. according to a new report the koch's influence is being felt there as well. coming to us via skype from doha qatar, where it's the middle of the night is victor minadi, the executive director that did that report the international forum on globalization. victor, welcome inside "the war room"?

>> hi. thanks for having me. >> you bet. thanks for staying up to bring the news to us. we heard what the koch brothers have done on the issue of climate change here at home. what is their impact on the international effort to deal with it? >> well there is a deadlock at these talks and the deadlock in doha goes to washington and follow the money towich. the two brothers worth $80,000,000,000 as you just said, their combined net worth, we consider them the single financial entity. they are now more wealthy than the world's wealthiestman, carlos flynn. so they spend that money, more than any oil company, more than even exxon on campaign contributions, lobbying expenditures expenditures, climate denial science, everything to fight the clean air act, to stop the fossil fuel subsidies, to stop clean energy policies in the u.s., and that is the basis of a deadlock here in doha.

so let's take it to the next question: what can be done then in washington to minimize the power of these incredibly wealthy men? >> well i mean, as you know washington is kind of -- has kind of become formalized legalized corruption. this is something that's got to start outside of washington. it already is. what we see is a groundswell of organized labor, communities of color, of environmental organizations, not just climate groups, are following the money and see that it's all leaveding to the kochs. they are not only the biggest source of financing for attacking collective bargaining rights, voter rights clean air, healthcare, but, as you know they bundled, you know, almost a billion dollars with their other conservative allies for the 2012 e elections. >> let's talk about what's going on doha as these talks wind doubt. a lot of us have been frustrated

watching knowing that the united states is not leading. what has been accomplished? and what is preventing the u.s. from finally signing, for example, the kyota protocol? >> there has been a lot of fossil fuels burned by thousands of people getting here, a lot of air conditioning and so on. you know there is a very power intervention today from the fill 15s negotiator. they have suffered a devastating super typhoon, bofa, the negotiate was crying calling for countries to come together for action. but my sense, and i think a lot of people is, it's not going to happen until the u.s. gets its -- it's politics together and we isolate some of these extremetists like the kochs funding all of the denial and the opposition. >> let me ask you, then is the u.s. -- we've got people there, i'm sure although they are not, for example, the higher ups. but is the u.s. participating?

are we acting at all like a leader there? is another country leading the way? is chip present at all? what's going on terms of leadership there? >> almost 200 kuntz trees are here and the u.s. is posturing like they are leading, but when countries look at what their finds is, what they are putting on the table in terms of emission cuts, it's not even 3, 4%. if you look at the way the u.s. is counting these emission cuts it's questionable if there will be cuts victor menotti joining us from doha qatar tonight. thank you for joining us inside "the war room." up next texas as a blue state. in 2016? could that be? maybe it's not as crazy as you might think. we will talk about the changing face of america and what it means for the future of

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>> you are back inside "the war room." i am jennifer granholm. whoever came up with the term "red state" surely had texas in mind. the state's two u.s. senators are republican, as is the third thing -- hum. i can't remember the third thing. 0, right, governor rick perry. in addition, 24 of the state's

36 congressional seats are held by the g.o.p. and mitt romney won the state by a 3 to 2 margin over president obama. in fact, democrats have not won a statewide office in texas since 1994. 1994. bi with democratic-leaning hispanic growing to 38% of the state population, you wonder: is the crimson tide receding? coming to us with an answer we hope is wayne slater the senior political writer for the dallas morning news. wayne is joining us from austin. wayne, world cup inside the war room. >> great to be with you governor. >> all right. so do you think texas could really go blue? >> it looks that way. the only question is not whether texas is going to move to purple and then blue but when. i think 2014, as some democrats suggest, when rick perry, the aforementioned rick perry is up for reelection is probably too

early. all of the signs here if we really talk to the smart guys on the republican -- democrat side suggest by 2016, 2018, you very well may see a democrat or democrats begin to win statewide e elections for the first time since you correctly said first time since 1994. >> okay. is rick perry actually going to run again, do you think? >> i don't know. i talked to people around him. the indication is he probably will. but he's going to do whatever he needs to do to prepare himself for another presidential run. he believes he is going to run against the president. >> do you think that hispanics turn, you know, other reliably states like arizona blue eventually, too? >> yeah, i think in the last red states, what red states have

seen hispanic population some nearly dobelling: arkansas as well as alabama, slay georgia. i am not takingdo you believe georgia. i am not taking -- i am not saying idaho will be a blue state any time in the future. >> right. >> if you look at the growth of the hispanic population there, they will have an influence in idaho in a few years. >> do you think that 23 if the status quo has mentioned as the republicans have been hostile to immigrants, the hispanic community, do you think it's right to assume that hispanics will continue to votedrantic going forward? the republicans have got a heavy lift. do they not? >> they do have a heavy lift. i think if there has been an agreement, an understanding, a revelation, a saul on the road to that you aresus experience out of this electionaursus experience

out of this election, we can't keep doing the same thing relating to telling mexicans to self-deport. we can't speak to harshly to these folks. you saw it all across the board in recent days since the election george bush had a gathering at the bush library this week in which he talked again about needing to be more tolerant in his approach. jeb bush his brother, who may run for president in 2016 has a book coming out on immigration and the way you deal with immigrants. the key here is not the matter of policies to be honest. it is the matter of tone. if you sound like an intolerant wing-nut, as they say here in texas, folks don't tend to vote for folks who insult you. and that's what hispanics seem to think. >> those are fighting words when you insult people. yes: one is you predict maybe

2016 is in the election for president but certainly, by 2020, you will see texas moving into the democrats' column? >> i think absolutely and again, democrats in texas vote 2 to 1 for -- hispanics vote 2 to 1 for democrats so you are likely going to see that. the key here is: a, will republicans get the message and not be so intolerant in their speech and, b, who feels kate candidate -- fields the candidates who are big vote getters? george b. bush jeb bush's son, he will run for statewide. on the other hand, you have people like joaquin and julio castro, the cast row brothers of san san antonioro brothers of san antonio. whoever is going to reap a big benefit. democrats ought to pay attention. >> stay right there, wayne. we will take a quick break. you are going to come back. we are going to pick your brain

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biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. >> we are back in the war room. tonight we brought you some good news and bad news. good news being that maybe katrina vanden heuvel is predicting it jim demint's departure from the senate is a sign of weakness of the tea party and wayne schlueter is predicting texas ends up going blue in maybe 2016, maybe 20s20. the koch brothers are still alive and well and pushing for right-to-work across the country. wayne, let me ask you about texas and redistricting. redistricting has obviously been a benefit to republicans. do you think that the redistricting issue will presently democrats from taking control on the state side? >> it's certainly a big, big problem. look at what happened in texas as an example of what happened,

i think, in many states in this last redistricting fight. the growth in population in texas was driven in almost exclusively by a growth in hispanic population but when it came to four additional congressional seats on the congressional side democrats only got one. republicans got three seats. so redistricting is key to the republican effort to continue to hold on power, certainly in congress. and you see at the state level as well because we have redistricting at the legislature. >> right. >> both the house and senate. >> we've only got just a few seconds left. just quickly on immigration, do you think that the republicans in congress will use this to their benefit to pick up additional clout in those states that they might be losing? >> well they will try to. again t if they change the rhetoric, try to offer up some